Remember the XKCD about "nice guys"? I'll wait while you re-read it.

Ok, so I found that guy on OKCupid. In fact, I found what I think may be like a time-lapse version of him, into a much more bitter and entitled future. He may someday delete the beautiful block of woman-hating prose, which would be a shame, so I'll preserve it here:

My self-summary
What happened to all the nice guys?

The answer is simple: you did.

See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were f***ing treated you.

At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.

Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you weren't dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?"

Well, once again, you did.

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.
Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.

So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.

2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.

3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab a hold of it.

I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.

If you were five years younger.

So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've f***ed yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't want you, now.

Now there are a few things I'd like to point out about this. First of all, this guy is 24. Not only is that incredibly young to be so bitter, but that "look back five years" stuff means he's referring to rejections that occurred when he was nineteen.

It's also very well-written. I'm tempted to plagiarize it wholesale and submit it to a short fiction contest or something. This isn't just his "about me" section, this is his memoir. He's carefully crafted this, lovingly revised it. This is a man who not only expresses his entitlement and bitterness, he cultivates it brilliantly.

This is the kind of man who, after barely containing his seething rage into middle age, experiences an actual rejection and subsequently opens fire in the École Polytechnique or some shit. The hatred can only continue to fester, because at this point, he's already made it everyone's fault but his own. If anyone were to point it out to him, he would doubtless consider it an attack from them too. He's probably doomed himself, because there's nothing more unattractive ("unattractive" being a nice word for "indicative of potential danger" in this context) than this aggressive combination of entitlement, blame, and self-pity. This is a sad, beautiful, ugly, fucked-up, scary story for everyone involved.

"See, if you think back,

Stabbity on Sun, 2011-09-04 17:30

"See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were f***ing treated you."

Those are all nice things, but when does this guy give the woman he's interested in any clear sign that he wants to be more than friends?

Once upon a time, one of my classmates in college started being especially nice to me. I didn't figure out he was interested in being more than friends until half-way through our first date later that summer (hey, I thought we were just friends catching up until he put his arm around me while we went for a walk after dinner).

@SK "Ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly, women are attracted to Bad People." Yes! It couldn't possibly be that we tend to date the guys who are confident enough to ask us out. I'm not saying that's fair (it completely screws submissive men), but hinting that you want something (a date, for example), and then getting mad at women for lacking the psychic powers to figure out that's what you wanted is just as unfair.

Just to clarify: I meant to

SK on Mon, 2011-09-19 23:30

Just to clarify: I meant to mock his conclusions, not endorse them. I know it's hard to reliably spot sarcasm in internet comments, so I probably should have avoided using it. But I do think the idea he's repeating is one that deserves ridicule.

Splitting men into passive, vulnerable "Nice Guys" versus aggressive, narcissistic "Bad Boys" is inaccurate, unfair, and hurtful. It's essentially a gender-reversed version of the ignorant rape-culture mythology which classifies all women as either helpless virgins or filthy whores.

Hehe, I think we do need a

Stabbity on Tue, 2011-09-20 00:36

Hehe, I think we do need a sarcasm smiley - I meant to mock the idea that just because this guy hasn't gotten laid recently, there must be a global conspiracy of women out to deny "nice" guys the pussy they rightly deserve for grudgingly going through the motions of friendship.

The women this guy was interested in couldn't possibly have missed his non-signals, or been creeped out by the idea they were supposed to compensate him for the grueling labour of acting like their friend by putting out. Nope, nope, we're all horrible people bent on making decent men miserable. That's much more fun than having satisfying relationships.

follow up

crystal violet on Fri, 2011-09-02 23:20

So, this guy actually messaged me and we have been chatting about the enneagram and he seems like maybe not such a terrible, scary dude as his profile seems to suggest. I stand by my morbid fascination with the original profile though, as a work of art of sorts.

I'm curious how this turned

SK on Mon, 2011-09-19 23:19

I'm curious how this turned out! Can you tell if he's a closet misogynist, or just someone who was suckered into believing the Nice Guy / Bad Boy mythology?

Nice is a loaded word.

SK on Thu, 2011-09-01 17:01

I think I've seen the same post elsewhere. I'm not sure if it's copypasta or just similar minds thinking alike.

This story is popular, and pure bullshit, because people assign multiple meanings to the word "nice." In context, it could easily mean: ethical, kind, considerate, empathetic, sensitive, polite, introverted, vulnerable, meek, submissive, or many other vaguely-related things.

When these ideas are smeared together, the result is a big blob of nonsense. This guy acts meek and submissive, so he must be Nice. That implies he must be a Good Person. But he hasn't been laid recently. Ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly, women are attracted to Bad People.

A more honest and less-creepy profile might be something like this:

"Hey, dom chicks! I'm a loyal, affectionate sub looking for a lady who knows what she wants to do with her life. If you're tired of aggressive guys ignoring you and holding you back, give me a chance. I'll hold you when you cry, make you dinner, and worship you like a Goddess."

So what's with all the shame and blame? I'd wager that he's always been told it's unacceptable for males to play submissive roles in sexual relationships. Or maybe you're right, and his sense of entitlement blinds him to the idea that politeness does not obligate people to have sex with you. Or - and I think this is likely - we're both right.

tl;dr. Short version:

- Nobody owes you sex.
- It's OK to be a submissive male.
- It's not OK to blame women who find subs unattractive.
- "Nice" is vague. Vague words cause misunderstandings.
- should be required reading for everyone.

P.S. Cool blog, yo.

I never thought of it in

crystal violet on Fri, 2011-09-02 23:23

I never thought of it in context of him being a submissive male. That does put a new spin on it. Whether he's sexually submissive or not, he does clearly identify with a submissive relationship role that he's undoubtedly gotten at least a moderate amount of undeserved flak for. Add to that the fact that our society doesn't really teach submissive men how to get respect (or even that they deserve it in the first place) and I can really see how this could easily turn out badly for even vanilla men who take the "nice guy" role, leading them to ironically behave like guys who are not very nice at all.

  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

This question is for testing whether you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.